tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post3760713448789765694..comments2023-12-06T00:17:28.519-08:00Comments on Creative Chaos: Metrics, SchmetricsMatthewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05956714498778698672noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-23682304888970686192009-05-15T05:45:00.000-07:002009-05-15T05:45:00.000-07:00Thanks joe. That link really helps.Thanks joe. That link really helps.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05956714498778698672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-57024215274069001002009-05-15T05:15:00.000-07:002009-05-15T05:15:00.000-07:00I think you're probably both misinterpreting what ...I think you're probably both misinterpreting what Jason Gorman is trying to say in his blog post.<br /><br />He's not saying that people who don't use metrics must be psychics. He's drawing a parallel between people who claim their code is good quality but have no hard evidence to back that up (metrics) and people who claim to be psychic but won't submit to scrutiny of their claims under scientific conditions.<br /><br />And he's definitely not saying "I know some successful companies that use metrics therefore just trust me". He's saying that, in his experience, teams that don't use metrics tend to deliver poor quality software, and that's probably because they don't have testable (measurable goals) for quality.<br /><br />And he's definitely not talking about just code coverage metrics. Or canned metrics in general.<br />Check out his Agile Metrics Design workshop to see what he really thinks about metrics:<br /><br />http://www.parlezuml.com/metrics/doyougetwhatyoumeasure.htmJoe Becknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-67819359585540605782009-05-09T13:46:00.000-07:002009-05-09T13:46:00.000-07:00Here's an idea -
1) Make your measurements mean s...Here's an idea - <br />1) Make your measurements mean something (e.g. align them with goals, or at least put a little thought into what they are telling you).<br /><br />2) Put some thought into what might change if you measure that. See if there's a better way. If not, note that you'll need to monitor that measurment more<br /><br />3) Monitor and make sure the measurement is telling you what you thought it would. If not, fix it or dump it.<br /><br />Alternate plan:<br />Give up on measurement.<br /><br />Both options sound pretty straight forward to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-9058026967398958712009-05-08T09:51:00.000-07:002009-05-08T09:51:00.000-07:00From a link Shrini put up in a comment:
From a li...From a link Shrini put up in a comment:<br /><br />From a link you put on my blog:<br /><br />"But dismiss all software metrics out of hand at your peril. Because I know that software teams who don't<br />measure quality tend not to deliver very good software. Successful development teams use metrics. Of course, there are plenty of teams who don't measure anything and who think they're successful. There are plenty of people who think they have psychic powers, too."<br /><br />How could be possibly /know/ that? Shouldn't he have some metrics to do that? Why, if he doesn't have metrics, he must have /psychic powers/.<br /><br />In other words, his entire argument boils down to "... but I know a lot of successful companies that use metrics, so just trust me."<br /><br />Yes, I grant that metrics can be used to understand and model system and team behavior. Shrini did a /great/ job summarizing Weinberg there.<br /><br />More to come.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05956714498778698672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-48124281842314034042009-05-08T09:15:00.000-07:002009-05-08T09:15:00.000-07:00Do not forget to add two things --
(text from Jerr...Do not forget to add two things --<br />(text from Jerry's books - paraphrasing him)<br /><br />1. First order measurements and second order measurements. First order metrics help us to understand how things work while second order order metrics help to optimise and improve what we understand.<br />Software metrics are first order measurements --- we confuse them to be second order.<br /><br />That brings us to second point<br /><br />2. Inquiry metrics and control metrics... Inquiry metrics prompt us to ask questions about what is being presented where as control metrics tempt (or tease) us to take actions using the information (one of several streams) projected by the metrics by the producer of the metrics.<br /><br />Metrics are multidimensional rich information squeezed into a single dimension number... it is much like putting "ship" into a bottle.<br /><br />A metric can have potentially thousands of stories connected with it ...<br /><br />ShriniShrini Kulkarnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782753752478547381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-14749050076168390242009-05-08T09:09:00.000-07:002009-05-08T09:09:00.000-07:00In the recent past, I have seen some "reasonable" ...In the recent past, I have seen some "reasonable" arguments" about "OK metrics are bad .. shall we reject and stop using metrics TOTALLY"...<br /><br />Jason Gorman - writes about it here<br />(Example of Max Planck and Quntam Mechanics, is good one - that is a metric). Metrics debunkers - extreme picture ...<br /><br />http://parlezuml.com/blog/?postid=798<br /><br />Note that use of metrics for all sorts of code coverage numbers is what Jason appears to talking about. What about IT world ....things like defect density, defect leakage, cost of quality and so on ... it is pretty messy there.<br /><br />Alan Page makes his point here - he must have finished his talk at STAR EAST by now on the same topic ....<br /><br />http://blogs.msdn.com/alanpa/archive/2009/04/11/metrics-mayhem.aspx<br /><br />What are your views...?<br /><br />ShriniShrini Kulkarnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782753752478547381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-87551928216048193362009-05-08T07:06:00.000-07:002009-05-08T07:06:00.000-07:00Before I consider what metric I might need, I alwa...Before I consider what metric I might need, I always ask myself what problem am I try to solve. That way, like Alevin said, I can stop measuring when the problem has been solved and move on to the next most important problem.Janet Gregorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-70244975287459026262009-05-08T06:45:00.000-07:002009-05-08T06:45:00.000-07:00The most sensible piece of wisdom I've heard about...The most sensible piece of wisdom I've heard about metrics in agile is that they are best used to assess and improve on specific problems. You identify an area that needs improvement; if it is sanely measurable, measure and improve. Once it's not a problem any more, find something else to improve.<br /><br />With this way of looking at things, metrics are not a universal set of permanent benchmarks but tools to be used in specific situations and set down when the situation doesn't pertain anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-79489024850740336952009-05-07T09:36:00.001-07:002009-05-07T09:36:00.001-07:00Seems to be working, Matt.
GeordieSeems to be working, Matt.<br /><br />GeordiePlugNPlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03935788387957987772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-43457013531800415592009-05-07T09:36:00.000-07:002009-05-07T09:36:00.000-07:00Yet making a choice to deliberately measire someth...<I>Yet making a choice to deliberately measire something in pursuit of improving it can't really be considered bad, can it.</I>It can be considered dangerous, though, and <I>Measuring and Managing Performance in Organizations</I> (Robert D. Austin) makes the danger explicit. It is this: when you announce that you are measuring a self-aware agency (typically a person, but also a group) on some dimension, that agency will respond by optimizing its behaviour towards improving that dimension. But value for services (such as software development or testing) is highly multi-dimensional, highly context-sensitive, and subject to lag times between the performance of a task, the measurement of it, control action, the next round of performance.<br /><br />Austin shows ways in which measurement that leads to distortion and eventual dysfunction. That is, either groups learn to lie about the measurement but still provide value, or adhere to the measurement and introduce dysfunction, unless you can arrive at complete observation and measurement. You can get something close to that for manufacturing, but it's impossible for human and non-repetitive activities such as design and development. So what's the solution?<br /><br />Austin notes that if you're a manager, make people responsible for the value that they provide, and explicitly avoid measuring them yourself (but encourage them to measure themselves <I>and</I> keep the measurement to themselves), they will tend towards optimal delivery of value. Essentially, tell them what you like and don't like about the product of their labour, but let them figure out how best to get it to you. He calls it "delegatory management", and it's more or less like the XP principle of the self-organizing team. It's also consistent with the approaches in the Positive Deviance movement.<br /><br />It's a fascinating book; I guarantee that those who read it will find something of value in it. Those who haven't read it should, in my opinion, take a break and come back when they're done reading.<br /><br />---Michael B.Michael Bolton http://www.developsense.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027725699187903416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-71984262450353574182009-05-07T08:52:00.000-07:002009-05-07T08:52:00.000-07:00Good points all. In addition, I think too many met...Good points all. In addition, I think too many metrics done poorly leads to waste. Metrics for metrics' sake. <br /><br />Twitter is a great point. Even if you try to use those metrics for talking to publishers, the numbers are skewed: there are so many robot followers out there that for many having a bunch of followers is simply an artifact of posting frequently.AbbotOfUnreasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08484573287776114988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36118108.post-79154003860876312222009-05-07T07:33:00.000-07:002009-05-07T07:33:00.000-07:00Yet making a choice to deliberately measire someth...Yet making a choice to deliberately measire something in pursuit of improving it can't really be considered bad, can it. You points just underline how important it is to shoose wisely.David Starrhttp://elegantcode.comnoreply@blogger.com